An Introduction to Sexological Bodywork: Interview with Rahi Chun

When you're struggling with your sexuality, it's important to understand the landscape of help and healing options available. Sexological bodyworkers are one type of sex professional that many people don't know about. They are particularly helpful for certain sex challenges, and can really be helpful for people with numbness, pain, or difficulty achieving orgasm. In today's episode, you'll get to hear an interview with guest Rahi Chun, sex educator, sexologist and sexological bodyworker. Rahi will explain what this field is about, his particular approach, and we'll talk over how to find this kind of practitioner for yourself and what kind of situations you may particularly want to seek out a sex bod.  

Key links:

Rahi's website: https://somaticsexualwholeness.com/

Sexological bodyworker directory: https://sexologicalbodyworkers.org/

More about NeuroAffective Touch (mentioned in episode): https://neuroaffectivetouch.com/about/what-is-neuroaffective-touch/

Get the free guide Find Your Secret Turn Ons to discover the roadmap to your best sex life at https://laurajurgens.com. You can also learn more about me and how to inquire about coaching availability.

Get a transcript of this episode by going to https://sexhelpforsmartpeople.buzzsprout.com/ Click on the episode, then choose the transcript tab.

PS: If you are offended by some swearing, this podcast is not for you.

Transcript

[00:00:20] Laura Jurgens: Hey, everyone. Welcome to episode 26. Today is all about sexological bodywork. We're going to talk about what it is and when you might think about getting a sexological bodyworker and we're going to do that with it. an awesome interview with my colleague and friend Rahi Chun, who is a sexological bodyworker himself and also host of the Organic Sexuality podcast.

[00:00:48] So I hope you enjoy this interview as much as I did.

[00:00:55] All right. Hey, everyone. I am so happy to be here today with my colleague and friend Rahi Chun. We are going to talk all about sexological bodywork, and I want to introduce Rahi first. He is a sex educator and a sexological bodyworker, which we will explain more about what that is, and he will explain what that is today.

[00:01:20] And Rahi also teaches things like genital dearmoring for individuals and couples, and has a very diverse training background in somatic bodywork and psychology. So, huge welcome, Rahi. I'm so glad you're here. And is there anything else you want to just say about who you are off the bat before we get started?

[00:01:42] Rahi Chun: Oh, wow. Well, it's a pleasure to be here, Laura. Thank you very much. It was wonderful to have you on my podcast, so it's great to be on your podcast as well. Yeah, I think you said it all. I'm so success educator, body worker, just that my particular body of work focuses on repairing RUP sequentially from the developmental years into teenage years, into adult years.

[00:02:06] So I think that. That makes it a little unique and and, you know, we'll get into the whole sexological body worker definition and landscape. Yeah, 

[00:02:16] Laura Jurgens: absolutely. 

[00:02:18] Rahi Chun: Thank you.

[00:02:18] Laura Jurgens: Yes, and Rahi's podcast, which we'll also mention at the end, is also called Organic Sexuality, right? 

[00:02:25] Rahi Chun: Yes, correct. 

[00:02:26] Laura Jurgens: Yeah which is wonderful, and I highly recommend it.

[00:02:29] So, I know you're a podcast listener, so you're going to want to go check that one out. So, how about we start out with just talking about what the heck is sexological bodywork, and what is What we might call for shorthand a "sex bod." What does the sexological body worker do? 

[00:02:47] Rahi Chun: Sure. So the field of sexological body work was approved first by the state of California in 2003.

[00:02:55] So it's been around for a little over two decades. And at the time was housed at the Institute for the Advanced Study of Human Sexuality, which had its kind of And educational credentials since then there have now been seven sexology bodyworker trainings all around the world, including the UK, Portugal, Australia Germany.

[00:03:18] And the foundational curriculum is, is similar at, at all these institutes. And that is to empower and educate clients. Clients to have a felt sense understanding of their arousal and pleasure patterns, their erogenous anatomy, and have the ability and practice of giving voice to their body's choices.

[00:03:41] So that's kind of like a really simple synopsis of what sex bods, short for sexological body workers are trained to facilitate and empower their clients with. Now, on top of that, every sex bod. tends to interweave that foundational curriculum with other things of their interest. Like, for example, I have a background in psychology, particularly keen on understanding how the initial touch and sexual imprints of children affect adults.

[00:04:14] Sexual habits, behaviors and patterns. There are colleagues of mine who, you know interweave sexbod with like kink culture, subculture let's see you know, postpartum issues, you know, there are doulas who become sexbods and kind of interweave those kind of areas of expertise. So when you, if you go to 10 different sexological body workers, they will tend to be different kinds of sessions, but the basic, basic foundation is really facilitating a felt sense somatic experience so that the client understands their erotic and a pleasure capacity so that they can give voice to their body's choices of what it is they're wanting.

[00:05:00] Laura Jurgens: Wonderful. Thank you so much. That was a really helpful explanation.

[00:05:04] And I think it's really important just to clarify for everyone that we are talking about genital touch. So in sexological bodywork, there is genital touch typically involved. And I don't know, is there anything else you want to say about that Rahi, as it relates to, I mean, there are some legalities and some legal restrictions in certain states, even though this is a really profound and an important healing modality, I think it is just a real shame that in the U.S. in particular, our legal structure and a lot of the culture,  sex shaming culture has not distinguished between sexological body workers and sex workers. And we also can talk about, we can think about how sex work is also so demonized, but even just this in service of people's healing, because there is some genital touch.

[00:06:01] Rahi Chun: Yeah, the genital touch is determined by what the client wants to explore and educate themselves around. So, everything is client led, so that should be underscored. So, when a client comes whatever their body experiences, You know, in an ideal situation, and I say ideal because, you know, they're all such a wide, wide range of practitioners that are trauma informed to different degrees, should be led and guided by the sense of safety.

[00:06:37] And readiness of the client's body. So a lot of clients are not ready for genital touch. So there was a genital touch. Other clients come specifically because they want to, they've never had they they've never explored their, their erogenous anatomy in their pelvis, you know, whether that's prostate induced pleasure or, you know, cervical pleasure.

[00:07:00] So. They're wanting that genital contact. So it's really client based. I have colleagues where, you know, most of it is body base, but they're also fully clothed. So it depends on the practitioner and the client's sense of safety. As far as legality. You know, this is, this correlates with genital touch, because in a lot of states, if there is genital contact by a non medical licensed professional, and an exchange of money for their prostitution, and so for that reason sexological body work is in a gray zone in most of the states.

[00:07:33] Like, in California, because it was approved by the, the, the state government in 2003, we're fine here, but in all In a state like Nevada, where prostitution is legal, it's not an issue. And to that point, countries like Germany, where prostitution is legal, it's, it's, it's, it's legal as well. But in a lot of states in the U.

[00:07:57] S., it's kind of an un there's been no precedent set in the courts as to whether this is, even though it's therapeutic, it's based on the client's consent there hasn't been a court case to establish the legality in a lot of cases. States. 

[00:08:11] Laura Jurgens: Mm hmm. Yeah. So for that reason, it can sometimes be hard to find a sexological body worker locally.

[00:08:18] And some people do travel, you know, I, when I worked with you, I traveled to you and people do travel from all kinds of places. Yes. To the sexological body workers. So that is just something to be aware of. But thank you so much for that great explanation. Really appreciate that. I think that's really helpful for everybody to kind of just get your head around what we're talking about here, right?

[00:08:41] So yeah. What about, how do you see the benefits of, and particularly the kind of sexological bodywork you do, or if you want to mention other colleagues of yours too, what specific issues or challenges or curiosities might people be coming to you with where sexological bodywork is really a great tool to help them?

[00:09:11] Rahi Chun: Sure. Well, the, the issues and the experiences that clients come with are quite broad, you know, they range like if I just look at my 10 years of, of serving sessions on one end, they can range from, I've had, I've had clients who've been circumcised clitorally when they were children or prostituted as children

[00:09:33] , and so have essentially frozen pelvises with no sensation, you know, all the way to the other, to Tantra teachers locally who want to variance the kind of extended orgasms that they're teaching about. So it's a very, very wide spectrum. You know, just the last few calls that I, yesterday I was call with a person who is 38 years old and she's not had an orgasm.

[00:10:02] And so, you know, in the call, I mean, because I've seen. You know, because there tend to be patterns like, so for example, with her, I share her, you know, oftentimes with inorgasmic clients, I find that either very much in control, you know, cannot surrender to the known of what an orgasm will invite there could be religious cultural conditions.

[00:10:27] Or, you know, some type of conservative sexual conditioning. You know, I'm going to go to hell with pleasure, these kinds of things, or a lot of guilt associated with their pleasure. So just within half an hour, you know, her parents were immigrants from Asia and, you know, had emotional support. So she very much has a tight grip on her life control.

[00:10:50] She's terminated every relationship she's ever been in. She, on top of that, she's a And so she's very much about demanding her body perform, you know, and so, you know, that's just an example of like a, an issue that is very common in orgasmia or difficulty in letting go to pleasure that can be assessed quite quickly. By people who've been in the field and have seen kind of certain patterns or certain commonalities associated with different issues. But you know, they range from like, I mean, essentially anyone who feels that they are not expressing and experiencing their sexual potential to the degree that they desire.

[00:11:32] Chances are there's some. Away, and that could be either biomechanical, you know, tension in the pelvis or a pinched nerve. It could be biochemical, not enough blood flow or blood that's been coated for a variety of reasons, hormonal or otherwise. That's not enlivening their tissue sensitivity. It could be trauma based or it could be something like scar tissue.

[00:11:55] So, you know, we're taught. to properly assess what the issue is and resolve that issue. 

[00:12:01] Laura Jurgens: Yeah, yeah, I love that so much. And I see people with a lot of the similar issues and work with them on sort of different levels, a lot of times on sort of emotional levels, releasing the shame, finding confidence, you know, really kind of unwinding some of that stuff so they can start, you know, learning how to find pleasure with themselves, if that's the most kind of comfortable route first, and or their partners.

[00:12:27] But for somebody who really wants to discover what's possible with their bodies and really also all of these sort of physiological things that could be going on, especially if there's a lot of numbness or pain or something like that. It makes so much sense sometimes to do those things in conjunction, like do the emotional work and see a sexological body worker to really help you unwind some of all those issues that you're talking about.

[00:12:59] And thank you so much. That's. Really great. So do you what do you think about that? What do you think about, like, the emotional work and kind of whether you suggest people do it before or after or like the de shaming work or, you know, working with somebody like a coach like me or a therapist where And a therapist is going to be more talk based, and then I'm going to do more somatic and kind of practice based stuff, as you know.

[00:13:24] But what do you think about how that kind of fits in with sexological body work? What would you suggest people, how would they make a decision about when would be a good time 

[00:13:35] Rahi Chun: to see a sex bod? Yeah, that's a great question. And it's going to really require an attunement within the client. Because, you know, I think The, for example, like working with a sex coach like yourself in conjunction could be really helpful because sexological body workers are, we're not that big.

[00:13:56] You know, our realm is with the body and the felt sense response of the body. You know, we're not, we're not trained to facilitate anything regarding relational dynamics, deepening relational intimacy, communication with your partner, you know, all of the things that somatic coaches and, and sex and intimacy coaches are so great at.

[00:14:16] So to do that in conjunction could be really amazing because, you know, with a sec. You are resolving, you know, the physiological or physio, you know, psychos obstacles to your pleasure and then you can engage with a sex and intimacy coach to deepen your capacity to communicate those needs or those desire and and have that really be received and understand how that affects a relational dynamic.

[00:14:46] But, you know, it's going to really depend on what the specific issue is. You know, like, to give an extreme example, like, you know, my client who was circumcised clitorally as a child, like, she would need to, to resolve certain her issues to a certain degree, the numbness issues to a certain degree, to even know what her desires are, whereas some.

[00:15:09] Yeah, whereas someone else, you know, may just never have gotten the proper sex ed, you know, because it's just non existent in our culture. So, you know, for them, I think it'd be great to work in conjunction with a sex and intimacy coach because then they're, they're, it's kind of like they're, you know, they're, they're running up and down the stairs as well as getting their speed on the track field, you know.

[00:15:33] They're, they're doing it in sync and they can, they can really feed each other. Yeah. 

[00:15:37] Laura Jurgens: Yeah, absolutely. So good, such a good point that it really depends on the issue. It can really be helpful to talk to somebody and see, you know, and also, you know, like when you're on a journey like that, when you're on some sort of healing around your sexuality and you're, you're working on it, usually, you know, you kind of run in, bump into the things you need at some point along the way in and whatever order they kind of need to happen.

[00:16:03] So I love that there's. You know, yes, they can feed into each other and support and then sometimes they're just like really like you say with somebody who has experienced like genital mutilation as a child, having having a sexological body worker really just guide and see what is possible and kind of help them open up their connection to their pelvis.

[00:16:28] So, so important. I love that. 

[00:16:31] Rahi Chun: Yeah. 

[00:16:31] Laura Jurgens: Yeah, such important work too. And, 

[00:16:34] Rahi Chun: yeah, yeah. 

[00:16:36] Laura Jurgens: Such, it's such profound, such a profound need. Right, especially for people who've been exploited as children or prostituted as children or, you know, were, have, have had all kinds of trauma, traumatic abuse and sex, sex abuse as kids and aren't experiencing the genital sensation that they might.

[00:16:57] Rahi Chun: Yeah, I mean, I'm curious with you, Laura, have you found yourself in that kind of tag team dynamic with any of your clients who are working with other body based practitioners and the kind of exponential fit that comes from working on kind of your emotional relational capacity as well as What is your sensorial, felt sense, somatic capacity?

[00:17:24] Laura Jurgens: Yeah, it's such a good question. And I think I will be having probably more as we keep increasing awareness of the different types of professionals that are available. But I find that I tend to be kind of an entryway. So a lot of people might not know about a sexological body work. And I, so I tend to refer out to people like you, I've sent people your direction and to, to other sexological body workers that are good colleagues that I, I know are very reputable and, and do great work.

[00:17:56] So, that tends, and then I also refer out to, like a trauma therapist for certain types of, of trauma if they have not, really dealt with the, the emotional or like the physical residue of the trauma. So I might refer to, depending on the types of trauma and the type of person, refer to somebody who does internal family systems or EMDR, or one of these sort of like very useful, specific time limited trauma modalities, but people typically come to me.

[00:18:31] So, like, they, they're, they're really entry level. I get a lot of people who haven't ever talked to anybody ever about their sex life or their challenges around sex and so I tend to be kind of a safe landing place for people who feel like they have a lot of shame or they haven't ever opened up about these things and we work together to get them to a point where they could even seek the type of other help that another somatic professional might be able to offer.

[00:18:59] Rahi Chun: That is such a an important like landing place that you provide, you know, because like that, you know, I mean, we all know how much courage it can take for someone to get to a point of even reaching out for, for assistance or support and you being there and you, you know, Holding that, that safe, unregarded, you know, like unconditional positive regard makes it safe for them to continue exploring.

[00:19:25] So that's a real yeah, like important container that you hold. 

[00:19:28] Laura Jurgens: Yeah. Thank you. And I feel the same. I feel like your work, you know, it was really profound for me and I've talked about it on your podcast, but I feel like that the conjunction and, and sort of putting all those puzzle pieces together for people and really having the, the expertise and somebody who can Bring a, an experienced and very grounded approach to exploring what's possible in our erogenous zones is just, and, and giving the body the pacing it needs and the voice, the space for the voice of the body is something really profound.

[00:20:11] And I. One of the things that you and I share, which I think is just so important in your practice and was really important for me and I, I know we've talked about this, how important it is for your clients too, is the neuroaffective touch training that you've done and just really having that trauma informed, somatic touch, aware and attuned touch with people, not, not even genital touch, but just to help the body relax and sort of discover what feels good.

[00:20:42] And I wonder how important do you feel like that is in your practice? 

[00:20:47] Rahi Chun: Well, I think it is profound. I start every session with neuroaffective touch, which was developed by senior somatic experience trainers. And the reason I start with it is, you know, it starts the prac, it's, it is. It's the client to start to attune to their own body sensations and listen for what their body really needs.

[00:21:12] And I think for a lot of us, you know, that process was hijacked by parents who thought they knew what our body wanted, you know, better than us. And so it's really a wonderful kind of foundational new Way to relate with the body that I really love because it sets up The client to know what to ask for and know how to voice for what their body wants when we get to the sexological bodywork Yeah, and it's deeply down regulating and it can really bring up a lot of Ways in which we lack that as children or we missed it It had a yearning to be supported in a certain way as children, and it gets touched into during the neuroaffective touch process, which can be really restorative and empowering.

[00:22:05] Laura Jurgens: Yeah, absolutely. I'm loving that a modality and approach for working with people relationally, because the same thing is true about applying it to voicing our needs in partnership, voicing our needs during a sexual encounter with a partner, and even just being able to. tap into what our body actually wants and give it room to speak is so wonderful.

[00:22:33] So I've been working with couples with that too and helping couples teach it experience it together. And I'm just so glad that you do that because I think it's so profound and important. 

[00:22:44] Rahi Chun: Yeah, you know, it should be, it should be like, like a given that all of us know how to attune to our own bodies and give voice to what we want.

[00:22:55] I find that, especially couples who are younger, they're so into impressing the other person with their sexual skills or their competency or, You know, wanting to be good enough that they really do override any kind of semblance of what their body wants or desires. And so it's a really good. Invitation to tune in and, and and be with what, what it is their body wants.

[00:23:25] Laura Jurgens: Yeah, absolutely. And then those patterns get sort of baked into our long term relationships and carried forward. And all of a sudden we wind up, you know, 40, 50, 60 years old saying, wow, we've been having sex the same way and I've been actually doing it as a performance for the last 30 years and I don't actually know what I really like And so we see and then all of a sudden we have like low libido and we're wondering why and it's like well --We haven't actually given our body anything that she wanted --Because we haven't bothered to ask--So we haven't we haven't taken the time to discover it because we somehow felt like it wasn't we weren't entitled to that or something so it's --You-- Yeah, you're right.

[00:24:05] We should, it would be so great if we all felt like it was easy to under, to hear that voice in our body and to speak it. But sometimes we need help practicing. 

[00:24:16] Rahi Chun: Absolutely. I think the point you're making is really important. And when that is the connection between one's healthy libido and the body really being satiated in its desire, like if there is a body that's not being satiated in its desires, and you know, even more than that, hasn't a clue what, what, what its desires are, then of course, it's going to low libido or where sex is not a priority or pleasure is not a priority.

[00:24:45] You know, I, we, I also want to say that so much of the indoctrination in our culture is really skewed towards, towards male pleasure. I mean, certainly the porn culture, even media in general, and so, you know, our arousal patterns are so different that a movie cannot accurately, like, let foreplay unfold in real time because it would be a 45 minute, like, scene, as opposed to like a three minute scene.

[00:25:17] So, we're really educating young people a tremendous disservice because we are mis educating them, you know, from childhood on. Thank you. 

[00:25:28] Laura Jurgens: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you so much for making that point. I really appreciate it. So, is there anything that you feel like is really important for people, for listeners to know about how to be, how to choose a sexological body worker if you feel like you need one?

[00:25:47] How to be discerning about how you choose one? Is there anything you want to say about that before we kind of wrap up and let people know where to find you? 

[00:25:56] Rahi Chun: Well there is a directory at the Sexological Body Worker website, which I believe is just sexologicalbodyworkers. org. You know, what I recommend to everyone is most sexological body workers will invite a discovery call.

[00:26:12] So you'll, you know, be on the phone with someone. And it's really important. It's your body sense of safety with that person because it's very, very vulnerable. It's, it's a very vulnerable experience to disclose and certainly to engage in any kind of touch that includes your pelvis. I mean, your body.

[00:26:33] But especially your pelvis and genitalia, especially if there's been a history of trauma, so gauging body responds to their voice, to their tone, to the conversation. Do they, are they really sincerely interested in your circumstances? Do you feel like they get you? And do you feel like they understand like what it is you're going through?

[00:26:55] So you're the, of your body and kind of their history and, um, their understanding of how to resolve whatever intention or issue it is that you're presenting, I would say those are. They're the most important things. 

[00:27:10] Laura Jurgens: Wonderful. That's so perfect. Thank you so much. So, as we kind of start wrapping up, I want to make sure everybody knows how to find you.

[00:27:20] And I will link everything for y'all in the show notes. So we'll put up the link for the Sexological Body Workers website. We'll put up Rahi's links. But what are the, what are the places that, what are the offerings you have going on? And how do people find them? 

[00:27:36] Rahi Chun: Sure. Thanks. My website is somaticsexualwholeness.

[00:27:40] com. Somaticsexualwholeness.com. You can on that website, it's kind of like a home for a hub for everything I offer, which includes. The podcast, which is free. I offer an online course called keys to genital de armoring. You can purchase, you can experience it self study or our cohorts that I guide through nine zoom calls twice, once or twice a year.

[00:28:05] There are also retreats. So we had a couples retreat last year. There will likely be one either this winter or next year. And that's all on the website. 

[00:28:14] Laura Jurgens: Awesome. Thanks, Rahi. Thanks so much for being here. I think this is really helpful for people and I just really want to offer gratitude for your generosity and sharing your thoughts and expertise.

[00:28:26] Rahi Chun: Oh, you're so welcome. Thanks for having me on Laura. It's great to see you.