Inside a Session on Emotional Desires: Asking For What You Want Without Shame or Blame

In this special episode, I let you listen-in on a live session with client Kris (with her permission!). She and I tackle the topic of owning our own emotional desires when we’re in relationship. Think of our emotional desires just like sexual ones. Sometimes we know them, sometimes we don’t. Sometimes we want to ask for something, but we don’t really know how to ask. Or how we’re asking isn’t working – the other person isn’t receiving it the way we mean and we need to try something new. Sometimes we think everyone is wired the same way and of course they “should” know what we want…but just like sexual desires, that’s just not true. So we can’t expect everyone to magically know what feels good to us. This is true for sexual and emotional desires. We’re way way more likely to get what we want for both kinds of desires if we are asking clearly and not making anyone wrong – us or them. 

Notice how great Kris is at embracing the "no one has to be to blame" part. Please don't expect to be a pro so quickly -- she has done a lot of personal growth work to build her capacity!

To try this out at home: 

1. Notice what it is you actually want to FEEL – not just the action you want your partner to take, but how you want to feel. Pick one overwhelmingly desired feeling. 
2. See if you can challenge yourself to make no one wrong – your partner isn’t wrong for not understanding yet and you aren’t wrong for wanting it in the first place. 
3. Ask how can we use this to connect and learn more about each other? How can I share about myself vulnerably here? 
4. Assume that one thing you think they need to do isn’t available or is impossible for whatever reason. Try on sentences or alternative things your partner could say or do to help you get the feeling you want anyway. When I say try it on, I mean really imagine it and see how it feels in your body. 

Get the free guide Find Your Secret Turn Ons to discover the roadmap to your best sex life at https://laurajurgens.com. You can also learn more about me and how to inquire about coaching availability.

Get a transcript of this episode by going to https://sexhelpforsmartpeople.buzzsprout.com/ Click on the episode, then choose the transcript tab.

PS: If you are offended by some swearing, this podcast is not for you.

Transcript

[00:00:20] Hey, my dears, welcome. Episode 30. It is, wow, it's amazing. It's been 30 weeks I've been doing this. You've been with me for some portion or all of that time, and I am so glad you're here. And I'm so glad to be here, too. So today is a fun one. I am giving you an inside ear to a coaching session recorded with a client that we will call Chris.

[00:00:49] And this happened to be a useful session because we're mostly talking, which is way better for you as podcast listeners, because sometimes my sessions are a lot of extended semantics, which is just body based work, games or exercises, which you couldn't see in a podcast, and that might bum you out. So instead, today we are talking in our exercises, I talk through them all, or Chris does.

[00:01:12] So in this session, Chris and I are tackling the topic of owning our own emotional desires when we're in relationship. Think of emotional desires just like sexual ones. Sometimes we know them. Sometimes we don't. Sometimes we want to ask for something, but we don't really know how to ask. Or, we try asking, but it doesn't seem to work.

[00:01:35] Like the other person isn't receiving it in the way we mean. And that means that we need to try some new way of asking. Sometimes we think everyone is wired the same way. And of course, we don't. We imagine that they quote unquote should know what we want, but just like sexual desires, that is not true for emotional desires either.

[00:01:56] We can't expect everyone to be wired the same or magically know what feels good to us without us asking. That's sort of the expectation of babies, right? That we come into the world and people will magically know how to care for us. And at some point we have to recognize that We can't carry that into adulthood anymore.

[00:02:15] But most of us don't. Like we imagine, it was especially easy, right? And it makes total sense to imagine that everybody's wired the same as us because we only know our own experience. So it takes some extra work and imagination to imagine that someone else might not know. This is true for both sexual and emotional desires that we really need to take an extra step to realize that we need to figure out how to communicate what we want to our partners, and that we're way, way more likely to get what we want if we're asking clearly and not making anyone wrong, either us or them.

[00:02:54] So here's a few things to listen for as we go through the session. Noticing, one is noticing what the client's actual desires are. What is it that she wants? Two, is noticing that no one has to be wrong. So Chris isn't wrong at all for her desires and her partner isn't wrong for not understanding them yet or not always meeting them the way that she wants by default.

[00:03:19] And it also doesn't mean he can't meet her desires, even if he hasn't previously, right? We don't have to use it as evidence that he'll never meet her desires. We can ask in a different way instead, right? And Chris is such a boss here at releasing blame. She does such a good job. And it sometimes takes a lot longer.

[00:03:40] So if it is much harder for you, just know that this was amazing. And be more patient with yourself in that process. So number three, notice that when We aren't getting what we think we want. We can use that to actually find ways to connect and help our partner understand us better instead of making up stories about why they don't want to do it automatically without being asked.

[00:04:06] So, notice how Chris does an amazing job owning her own desires and seeing how it could actually not be that hard to ask. And it also doesn't have to mess up her plans, like it could be amazing and fun and connecting. But I want to say, Chris is super courageous and we aren't all this brave emotionally.

[00:04:25] She has done a lot of work, so please don't compare yourself to her, just notice her as an amazing example of what's possible. And then lastly, notice how she and I try on what might feel good or better to her, even if she doesn't get the exact actions she thinks she wanted. So how could her partner still support her getting the feeling she wants to feel, even if he can't do the thing that she thinks she wants him to do?

[00:04:55] So that's how we get emotional desires met. You can try feelings on at home too. And at the end of this podcast, I'm going to walk you through how to try this on for yourself. So one short caveat is that I didn't take out pauses here because session pacing is really important just to let ourselves have time to reflect and let stuff sink in.

[00:05:17] But feel free to listen in at a faster speed if you need to, as per use, right? You can always do that. And for those of you who are wondering. What this has to do with sexuality. I hope there's not that many of you, but if you are wondering, you'll notice that this client is in a place where she's already solved a lot of the sexual conundrums, and they are both really enjoying their sex life.

[00:05:40] But I promise that if this kind of stuff goes on for a while, not getting emotional desires met, It will tank your sex life hard. And for those of you who haven't gotten your emotional desires met for a long time, you will probably recognize that. You'll be like, oh yeah, I know about that. I know about that thing because I don't want to have sex with my partner when I'm not getting my emotional desires met, right?

[00:06:04] So, without further ado, I want to get to it. Here's the wonderful Chris and I meeting on this topic. Here we go. 

Hi. Hi. Thanks for seeing me. Well, I am really excited to talk with you about this. And I wanted to check in with you and just invite you to check in with your own nervous system right now, whether it's just about talking to me about this or whatever has happened during the day about the subject and just see if you want to take a couple deep breaths into your body.

[00:06:41] I'm going to take any movements that feel good. Don't make me check in. I'm going to cry at the very beginning. Perfect. Oh. Perfect. Yeah. So let's just settle in and just let anything that's here for you just be here. Okay. Okay. Nothing is a problem. You can have all the sensations of any emotions that are here.

[00:07:07] You can be crying and leaking out your eyeballs. Totally okay. So we're just going to check in and see. If you were going to give yourself just a gut feeling score on like zero to ten, with zero being completely calm, utterly calm, and ten being, you know, fight, flight, panic attack, punch the wall, where, where is your nervous system right now?

[00:07:32] What, what's your number? Probably like in a six. Like on a normal day, I would ignore it. But as soon as you ask me to go in, I'm like, oh, there we go. Okay, so you're noticing you're a six. Great job. So next I just want you to take a moment and ask yourself, close your eyes, check in with your body again, and just see if you can find in your body, what is your body, where is your body telling you?

[00:08:01] How do you know you're a six? Like right here, and it's like very it's like a little bird flappy, like it feels like, I don't know if it's necessary anxiety, but it's, but it's right here and it's like, kind of over your heart a little bit. Yeah, and there's something going on down here. Okay. This is the really, like, this is what I'm aware of.

[00:08:22] Okay, so there's a little bit of fluttering, kind of flappiness. It feels a little panicky. Okay. So we're just going to breathe into that for a moment. Just send some breath there. Let it be okay that it's here. Is it tolerable, that sensation of flappy flappiness there? Yeah. Okay. We'll just send a little breath there and let it be okay that it's here.

[00:08:46] I think it's just fear about all the other stuff that has nothing to do with this. Okay. That's okay too. Yeah. Yeah. We always come with whatever has come before. Right? Thank you. So let's also just scan your body and see if there's any place that feels neutral or even good. Hmm. And you can just, it could be really small.

[00:09:09] It could be an earlobe or a shin. forearm, anything. Just find a place that feels neutral. Okay, you got some place? Just take some breaths into that place there too. And then let's just direct some breath there and let yourself just rest in that sensation of neutral. Just notice that it feels okay there.

[00:09:37] You can breathe into that place that feels okay. And then we'll just toggle back the awareness back to this area around your heart that felt fluttery. Let's see if it feels the same, if it feels a little different. Yeah, it feels a little bit better. I would say like a four now. Okay. Good noticing. Yeah.

[00:09:59] We'll just kind of let all that be there. And let you take any movements, or it's great that you're yawning, that's actually a really great activation of your parasympathetic nervous system there, just a little relaxation. Take some stretches and yawns. It's like stuck right there. Back of the jaw. Yep.

[00:10:25] Yeah, good job. Okay. And it's totally okay to be at a four and a six at whatever you're at.

[00:10:38] Saving it for later. Yeah. All right. So, would it be okay, would it feel okay to tell me a little bit about what you would like some coaching on? Yeah. So thank you. And I just got my on, here's what I would like some coaching on. So I've been seeing this guy drew for mm-Hmm. six months or so. Mm-Hmm. . And here's all my brain story about it.

[00:11:06] Okay. I really like him. He has told me, and I've also made a story about him being an avoidant like attachment. Mm-Hmm. . And I've been very aware of that to try to not, you know, too much. And. In the beginning, I was really trying to not, I mean, I, in the, try to not like push too much or ask, ask, ask for things that feel weird for him.

[00:11:39] And what I did at the beginning was totally freak out about it. Okay. Therapist's recommendation. I just kind of sat back instead of being like, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, I just kind of sat back and watched what he was willing to give. And what was interesting is. When I just sat back, it did seem like he got more comfortable and he actually came towards me more and we've had a lovely time.

[00:12:03] And also just because of schedules, we really only see each other once every three weeks, once every two weeks, sometimes once a week that hasn't been like that for a while. And even the texts, it's like. Not they're, they're lovely, but it's not a lot. And I feel like I would like a little bit more, but specifically here's kind of what brought this up, we were going on a date the other night and talking about this concert we're going to go to together and.

[00:12:39] The next day he's going to go to a wedding and I definitely had it in my mind like, Oh man, it would be nice to be invited me. And then we were talking about this other, he goes, Oh, but I actually have another wedding in October. And I actually have a plus one for that. And my whole system was like, Like, is this it?

[00:12:58] Is this it? Is he going to ask me? ask me? ask me? And then he starts talking about his buddy who lives in a place where the wedding is, who he's staying with, and his buddy was like, Hey, do you have a plus one? And so he had to like, call and ask and blah blah blah blah blah. And this whole time I'm just pretending like, this is not affecting me at all and blah blah blah blah blah.

[00:13:15] Meanwhile, I'm just like, I f And I don't know the actual details of the actual weddings if he didn't have You know, I know sometimes they don't have plus ones, whatever. My whole point is I would really like for him. I would like for the person that I'm seeing to want me to be in their life. Like he's got a big opening of this.

[00:13:40] Big project happening next Thursday and I haven't been invited and again, maybe it's because he's gonna be in work mode Like I can rationalize all of these things But I feel like we fit really great into the like box of let's have a really great date Let's have some really awesome sex. This is fantastic.

[00:13:59] But I What I think I want is I want him to want me in his life more and then the intellectualizing kind of goes around and I'm like, okay, is this just a case of me having to like grieve the fact that he's not doing what I want and me having to notice what he's willing to get or like me notice where he is.

[00:14:21] And decide if I'm in or out and is this the pause for just a minute before we go on to all the interpretation. How would you get to feel if he asked you to this opening or one of these weddings? I mean, I think wanted important, special I think more secure. Like I just feel like cozy is the word and like the sensation that's coming up for me.

[00:14:50] Just the idea of like, Oh, he wants me here. Like he wants me in his life. Huh? Just that kind of like, It feels good. Well, those are feelings that are really pleasurable for many of us, right? Like, we just really enjoy feeling wanted and desired and included and all those things, right? Of course. And it makes total sense that you would want to feel those ways.

[00:15:17] And you have the idea, right, that if he did this, you would get to feel those ways. And when he doesn't, it feels like you're not included and not wanted. Yeah. And so there's like, almost like a contrast here where it seems like it feels like you feel a little bit rejected. Yeah. I think that's fair. It's like, I feel like I'm in like the outer circle, but I want to be accepted into like a different, like a more inner circle.

[00:15:45] Yeah. Because he wants me here, but I want him to want me like this. Yeah. So I want to just change tack for just a moment and just check in on whether you want him in your inner circle. Do you, do you invite him to stuff? I have before. Yeah. And he came, we had a blast. I mean, I haven't invited him to like friends and family things.

[00:16:08] But he, he has come to like the museum opening with me and my friends were there. We drove my friends home. Like, he's, he's actually met, I don't want to say he's met a lot of my friends, but he's met some of my friends and it's all, it's been great. And he's even made the comment, like, you never have to worry about me.

[00:16:25] I'm always great with friends, like that kind of thing. Yeah. So if you had a wedding coming up, you would want to invite him? It's such a good question. I mean, I would, but I would be worried that I can feel the part of my belly. That's like. Trying to guess if that's okay for him, but I would want to go with him if I'm just saying what I would want.

[00:16:45] Exactly. So if you're just saying what you would want, you would want him to come with you. Yes. Hmm. Yeah. But there's some fear that maybe he wouldn't want that. That the two of you want different levels of involvement in each other's lives. And that's feeling like kind of putting you on the outskirts.

[00:17:07] Mm-Hmm. feeling like you're an outsider in some ways, or kind of kept to the margins in some ways it sounds like. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, I guess the other question I have for you is just how does this feel? How, how long does this, do you think this would feel okay to be in this sort of level of circle of involvement that you're in?

[00:17:31] It's a really good question because I feel like I've felt this same way to different degrees since for as long as we've been dating and then sometimes based on whatever is going on in my life, I'm like, actually, it's fine. And then other times it's like, Oh no, there it is again. And so it's been, it's kind of been like this.

[00:17:52] And I just keep. Like, the story I keep telling myself is that I am busy and I like him more than I have liked anybody for a long time and I don't want to like, like I would rather not. Not just go back to like the apps because I like him so much I don't want to just like throw it out and start over because I don't know that I have the energy or that I would I don't know.

[00:18:17] That's kind of what that cycles kicks off in my mind. Oh, is it okay if we get in there a little bit? Yes. Well, let's just sort it out because there's like all these, it's sort of a little tangle, right? It's a little knot of different feelings and different situations and different circumstances. And then when we're involved in these types of dynamics with a new partner, there can also be all these imaginings, right?

[00:18:42] Because we're not living with them on a day to day basis. We don't really see all of the whole person, right? We see them in little snippets when we're dating. It's like, usually people are kind of on their best behavior. And so there's also all these imagination, all these imaginary possibilities of how we get to feel.

[00:19:06] In certain circumstances that may or may not be actually true, but there's also nothing wrong with the, what you want, you know, like maybe the two of you want different things, but what I hear and what I wanted to get in sort of under the hood a little bit more if it's okay with you is when you are saying, well, you don't want to go back to the apps.

[00:19:29] Yeah. It almost sounds, and I want you to correct me if this is wrong, cause I might just be getting the wrong impression, but it. Almost sounds to me like you're saying, I would rather not screw this up by asking for what I actually want because I don't want to have to go find somebody else to date. So I would rather just accept what he's willing to offer rather than ask for what I want and just let myself feel shitty.

[00:19:53] I mean, that is true with the addition of, because he's really great. Yeah. Yeah. I get that he's great. Absolutely. And the two of you are having a great time. You feel, it sounded like, you know, maybe there's, you would like more texts, but the quality is really good. Even if the quantity isn't quite hitting it, you know, but the time that you are together, you're really enjoying each other.

[00:20:19] Yeah. In person is freaking awesome. Yeah. It is awesome. Wonderful. It's, that's not a lot of our time. Yeah. Like, percentage of the month, you know? Yeah. And that's, and, and you said too, that's because that's both of you, right? You both have schedule challenges. I would say it's more him, but like for sure it's both of us.

[00:20:42] Okay. Okay. So if the schedule challenges didn't change. Mm hmm. But you felt like you were more in the inner circle. How would that feel? I mean, it would, it would feel it would feel great. I mean, my, I, again, I, it, it, it, I feel like, just like the, the wanted and the cozy. Mm hmm. Like, those are the things that keep coming through.

[00:21:08] Those are really important feelings for you. Yeah. Yeah. You like feeling wanted. Yes. Yes. Understandable. Yeah. So that's a desire for you that is really important for you to get from a partner. Yeah. And I wonder if there may be ways that you might be able to ask for that, and there may be ways that you could get it.

[00:21:36] that fit within whatever he's available for. Right. And there may be ways that aren't, but there may be sort of like compensatory things that he could do to help you feel wanted. I mean, I feel wanted in the moment. I feel appreciated. I feel like sexy and desired and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[00:21:55] It's just all the in between. And there is, I mean, there is some, it's just like, Well, I wonder this, can we role play just a tiny a moment and I will be, I will be true. And if we Go back to the conversation where I'm telling you all about this wedding that I'm going to go to. Okay. Okay. So tell me, so you said that it was sort of like, Hey, I'm going to go to this wedding and this one, you know, Hey, that's happening.

[00:22:22] And then that's the near term one, right? There's one in September and one in October. Yeah. Okay. So this one in September, I'm going to go to a wedding in September. And then I'm also saying, I'm going to go to one in October and I actually have a plus one. Who's my friend who lives near there. And then I'm just sort of blindly going along about my conversation, is that what's happening?

[00:22:42] Totally! And I'm like, you have no idea what this does to a woman! Well, especially one who likes to go to weddings. Yes! Totally! If you don't like going to weddings, you'd probably be like, woo, good thing I got out of that! You know what a good plus one I am on the dance floor? Come on! There's a lot of people who don't love going to weddings, so they'd be like, woo, all right!

[00:23:04] And if you like, yeah, cause you like going to weddings, right? Your immediate response was, Ooh, I totally want to go with you. Yes. Yeah. And that was what was your authentic response, right? Was I totally want to go with you. Yes. And then in the moment you felt like you needed to kind of squash it down. Oh, for sure.

[00:23:25] Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. So I'm wondering how would it feel to you to show up for you in a way where you said wait, you actually wanted. So I have been very like dancing around the edges of this. Like even later that night we were Being intimate and, and, and I wasn't even trying to be passive aggressive or anything.

[00:23:50] I was trying to be like flirty. And I was like it would be so much easier not to see you for three weeks if you weren't so good at this. Which I thought was like, just a compliment. Mm-Hmm. . And he just like says nothing like he's a master ev Vader. Like, not even like, oh, I know. Me too. Or he just. And that has been the pattern.

[00:24:12] If I say anything, I'm not even going to call that confrontational. Cause I feel like that's extremely light, but even he's, he's just like, like anything like that kind of goes around it. And then I feel like I can just feel like my, like, yeah. So you're, you're, you're, you're, understandably trying to dip a toe in the water to like test out the waters of how he will respond to your expressions.

[00:24:41] These like light expressions of wanting to see him more often or wanting to be more involved in his life. And I wonder if, yeah, so I don't know him and, but I'm going to guess. It's possible. With somebody who is feeling, so those of us who feel kind of avoidant about attachment are typically scanning for some sort of control or manipulation.

[00:25:07] Yeah. And that's because we have some sort of history of that in our past. We have some sort of history of control or manipulation, often from a parent, sometimes in other situations. It might be that. That is just the indirectness, even though it totally makes sense to you, and you are not coming from a bad place at all, and it is absolutely sensical to try to dip your toe in, it might be that by the virtue of just doing it indirectly is feeling a little bit scary.

[00:25:41] Right? And so I wonder if actually saying really directly and having a conversation about it, Might actually make this easier for both of you because you won't have to spend so much time trying to figure out Well, how do I get what I want? Yeah, and how do I sort of do it in a way? That's not gonna scare him off Yeah, right where you're kind of you're spending all this energy trying to figure out how not to scare him off Yeah, I just having needs as a human being.

[00:26:17] And so it's almost like you almost wind up sort of selling yourself down the river by not showing up for your own desires. But at the same time, because whenever you're trying to sort of, you know, do it very gently, it's, it may be coming across as overly indirect, and it's hitting his. scanning for, not saying you're manipulating at all, but if he's scanning for manipulation or, or that kind of thing, anything indirect is going to potentially have a little trigger there, like a lower key trigger.

[00:26:53] So, It might, so what I wonder is if it would be possible to have a conversation, if you would feel comfortable enough having a conversation, like, I actually really want to be direct with you, and I want to tell you what it is that I would like out of this relationship, and I want to have a conversation about what you would like and what you're available for.

[00:27:15] And I want to do it really up front so that we don't have to do, we don't have to play any games about this. We can be really open and honest with each other. And then you can say things like, hey, by the way, you may not know this about me, but I love going to weddings. And, you know, if, you know, particularly, I really want to feel wanted and included in your life.

[00:27:38] And even if we can't see each other more often right now because of our schedules, I want to offer you some ways to help me feel wanted and included. Are you up for that? You know, so I'm, I'm, I'm just offering that that might be an approach that could decrease your anxiety and also his sort of weird shutting down.

[00:28:04] Yeah, I really like that. When you first started talking about it, the thing that came up for me was like, well, I did try to have that, like determine the relationship talk, but that was way back when we'd only been dating for like six weeks. Yeah. But we've gone a lot further and cause he was, he was equally evasive when I was extremely direct, but we've now been, we've done, we've done more together.

[00:28:28] It's been, we've had more time and I liked the way that you Language that and yeah, I would suggest just leading with a I want to help you understand how to take care of me, you know, kind of thing. Instead of, I'm trying to get you to do something. It's, I want to help you understand what I need. So you can do it well.

[00:28:52] Because I deserve to feel, I deserve to have my needs met, right? Like, that's okay. You get to ask. Like, I want to feel wanted. And here's, here's, going back to our little, We didn't launch roleplay yet. If I, if we were having this conversation about the wedding, for example, let's just try this on as an, this is like a, an alternative scenario in which that conversation could happen where I said, Hey, I'm going to a couple weddings coming up and I really want to make sure that, you know, I would love you to come.

[00:29:35] But I'm not, I'm not allowed to have a plus one for one of them, and then my dear friend lives right next to it for the other, and I really need to take him because I'm staying with him. But I want to make sure you know that I would, I would really like to have been able to invite you. That would feel great, actually.

[00:29:52] Yeah, how does it feel in your body just to receive that? Actually, I thought you were going to make me, like, roleplay the car. And I was so scared. I was like, starting to cry already. I was like, I don't know what to say.

[00:30:06] But yeah, if he would say, just like, say that, that feels amazing. Cause it's like, he's thinking about me. And then I think there is a voice in my head that's like, but I want some evidence from him inviting me to do things that are in his power. But even the fact that he gets, like, it feels like that relief of like, oh, he gets me.

[00:30:28] Right? Mm hmm. Feels really good. Yeah, so you wouldn't want that to be the case for everything, where there would always be some sort of, you know, apology in advance or excuse or something. But just staying on this, it would have actually felt okay. And even nice. It would have felt like he at least thought about me, which is the whole fucking point.

[00:30:49] Exactly. So that's what I wanted to get to, was testing out how that would feel. It sounds like that would still help you feel wanted. Totally. Right? Yeah. And that's the goal. It's not like whether you go to X wedding or not, like, whatever, you're going to have a great time. Maybe you're going to go do something even more fun that day.

[00:31:08] But it's whether you get to feel like you are included and wanted. Yeah. And I guess now that you're saying all this, it's like, just like considered. Or thought of, like thought of as part of his life rather than just like a, like every once in a while, boop, that, that's, I think what it feels like. Yeah. So if that feels like a really important desire, that's the kind of thing we can ask for.

[00:31:39] Okay. And I mean, it's better to know whether he can do it or not. That's true. Because at some point. It may be time for you to go back to the drawing board, but there's no evidence that he can't do this yet. Right. He does not know how, and he might not, we, you know, I think one thing that we often forget because of all kinds of socialization and movies and TV and everything is that we actually really do have to teach people how to love us the way that we want to be loved, right?

[00:32:10] And so this is like giving him an opportunity to see how he could care for you and offer you something that would feel good And it may just be something like practicing, like, thinking of some sentences that would feel good. Like, to just hear, you know, I would really like to see you, and I wish it wasn't going to be so long.

[00:32:31] That might be Yes. Like, that sentence might really land well for you and help you feel wanted and included even though you're not going to see him for three weeks. Yes. Totally. Totally. Totally. Totally. Totally. Okay, that feels really good. Can I tell you what my brain is throwing up? Yeah, sure. I love all that so much.

[00:32:56] Things my brain is throwing up are oof, I forgot one of them because I'm emotional, but the other one is, oh, one of the one thing is like, okay, but how do I get into this conversation? Do I need to like give him a heads up that I want to like have a conversation? Blah, blah, blah. That's one. The other part is the he's having a really hard time because his.

[00:33:17] Mom is in the process of going into hospice and the part of also the part of me that's used to not asking for things is like, well, for sure, don't ask for it now. You know what I mean? And so, yeah, there is a slippery slope, right? And it's a coming from a beautiful place of acknowledging someone else's difficult situation pain, right?

[00:33:45] It's coming from empathy. I've seen that he's in a struggle right now. It's still okay to ask for what you need because we can't wait for somebody's life to get totally simple and easy to ask for, to share with them how we need to be loved, right? Because when we, when we do that, there's always going to be something, maybe it's not going to be mom going into hospice level something, but I mean, hopefully not, right?

[00:34:13] For this poor person. But you can also acknowledge the empathy. And even just make space for that in your conversation. Right? Like, hey, I get that there's just a lot going on for you right now. There's all this stuff with your mom and there's part of me that doesn't even want to ask. But I also, you know, I want to take care of what we have here, which is really fun.

[00:34:41] I love it. And I want to give you a chance to know how to take care of me in this too. If it's Within your capacity right now. Yeah, I love that way of saying it. Because otherwise, you're just sort of saying, Well, I'm not going to take care of the relationship, Because, And I'm just going to sort of build up my, Like, negative feelings about this, And not give him even a chance, To step up, And do what you need.

[00:35:09] Maybe it's easy for him. Yeah, it wouldn't be it wouldn't be a huge ask for me If if you were my partner and you said I would really like to hear this from you I would be like, oh my gosh, you're amazing. I totally want you to know that you're wanted I totally want to tell this to you It maybe didn't occur to me That that would be something that you would need or want and look at how amazing you are for asking for it straight out And that feels so good to me And I can trust you to ask for what you need.

[00:35:40] Oh my gosh, now all of a sudden, we've increased the intimacy level in our relationship because I can trust you to ask for what you need. And that calms me. Yeah, I can feel how much my system is relaxing even just imagining that. Thanks. So let's just play with how do you get into that conversation?

[00:36:04] That's your other concern, right? Like how do you get into that conversation? What would be the most straightforward way possible to get into that conversation? Let me go back to my notes and see what you said a few minutes ago. No, just like I want you to check in with your body and say how, if there was no negative consequences that I was worried about, What would I do?

[00:36:29] There was no negative consequences. I would be like, dude, we got to talk about something, but that is not the reality of what's happening in my body. Okay, so but let's just let's just roll with this and let's just pretend it. Okay. So you call you call me up and you say dude, we need to talk about something.

[00:36:48] Yeah. Hey, okay. Okay. What do we need to talk about when? Is it a phone conversation? Well, and that's the thing. I think probably it would just feel better to me to get it over with. And if in this imaginary world everything's fine, I just call and do it and then it's over with. Although I think, realistically, it's a better in person conversation.

[00:37:09] Yeah, so there's a There's a, there's a check here that I think is really useful for all of us when we're thinking about having a challenging conversation. Is, am I ambushing the person? Exactly. Am I ambushing the person in order to get, get it over with for my own, yeah, for me. And so, there's a really, really easy way to not ambush somebody.

[00:37:35] Okay. To say, Hey, here, I'm going to be you, dude, I need to have a conversation with you. Is this a good time? Okay. Right. Literally saying it's about, or, and you can say too, like it's about feelings. It's probably going to take, you know, 20 minutes, 30 minutes or something. Is this okay? Time. Mm hmm. You know, or do you want to schedule a time and I can call you back later or we just don't even talk on the phone so this would be so we basically like text and then go on dates.

[00:38:14] Yeah. So it would be so out of the blue for us. If I'm if I'm taking it out of imaginary land. Okay. Maybe that's fine, https: otter. ai Like, it's very out of our pattern. Yeah. What do you think? I mean, the question is really like, what do you think about it? Does it feel, you can, here's, here's the thing.

[00:38:38] You could try to make everything perfect in the whole setting, right? So that it's like, you know, trying to control the whole situation so that you can. Imaginarily control the outcome, but the thing is, we don't know how he's going to respond. We don't know what his capacity is for giving you what you want.

[00:39:01] This is why you're going to have this conversation in part two, because you want to know whether this person can care for you. At even this level, I think I do want to have it in person and maybe it's maybe it's a control thing because I feel like I can control the mood or I can control the delivery better.

[00:39:19] I don't know. But there is something about having it in person that feels better to me. Well, and that then go with that, right? Like, that's okay. I would just caution if you know, if like, if you decide that you're going to have it in person, Okay. Go ahead and let him know that you also want to have a conversation beforehand.

[00:39:38] Yeah, don't, we don't want to, we want to avoid ambushing people because nobody responds well when they are super duper surprised. No, totally. So maybe I don't want to do it on a date if I only see him once every fucking three weeks. Well, I think you can, but you, you can let him know in advance that you want to have a conversation to let him know how he can better support you.

[00:40:01] You just want to have a conversation about. What you would like and how he can do it. Okay, you know, I don't think you have to like avoid I would avoid overthinking this to death because Right. That's just one way that our subconscious tries to control the situation so you can choose whatever feels okay and not Horrible and isn't sort of like I have to talk to you about this right now because I'm upset Right.

[00:40:31] Okay And I would say, you know, try to pick a time when both of you are relaxed. This is, you're going to have a much better outcome if you start out relaxed, right? So that exercise we started with, that 0 to 10 scale, see if you can be a 3 or lower. And do whatever you need to do to support yourself. Yeah.

[00:40:52] And care for yourself so that you're a 3 or lower. Not coming in activated. And, and we don't think, I mean, I know I don't want to ambush him. I also don't want him to be like, Oh my god, I need to worry about this conversation. Yeah, that's the fine line for all of these, but I generally just like, you know, if you don't make it a huge deal when you ask for it, it's not going to sound like a huge deal.

[00:41:15] Got it. That he's going to get all worried about. You know, and I mean, you are in a relationship and sometimes relationships, I, I recommend people have weekly check ins if they're in a long term relationship. Most people don't do that, they just ambush their partners at any given point while they're upset.

[00:41:32] Right. Which gives us the worst possible outcome. Yeah. Indulges our desire in the moment. Right. exercise our demons, right, to like work it out, like get it out of us and onto them. But it doesn't actually help. But you're not trying to do that. You know, you're not even seeing each other that often, so you have some logistical challenges for when you're going to have relationship conversations.

[00:42:01] And if you're not going to have them over the phone, and I definitely don't recommend having them over text No, no, no, no. There's no possible emotional context in text, right? Like, there's no inflection, there's no worm. It's possible. I mean, there's only so much you can do with an emoji. So you either want to have it over the phone, over Zoom, in person.

[00:42:26] You know, and if you don't have regular check ins on the phone or over Zoom, then you probably need to do it in person. But I think the real thing I would caution about is it's easy to think these kinds of conversations are about conflict. And that's why you don't want to have it on a date. But they're not about conflict.

[00:42:52] They're about building intimacy. And helping each other understand each other. You're going to understand more about him at the end of the conversation. And he's going to understand more about you at the end of that conversation. So that's actually a pretty fucking good way to spend a date. I love that way of looking at it.

[00:43:10] Yeah. Right? And if you only ever do like fun, fluffy things, you won't be building intimacy. Yeah. That's a really good point. Which doesn't really feel that satisfying to me. Exactly. Exactly. Okay. Okay. Well, that feels really good. My little chest bird is totally relaxed now. So if it feels like you want to have a practice conversation beforehand, let me know, but we can, but it's, I mean, I think you've got this, but we can actually, It feels really stressy.

[00:43:46] We can also have some practice conversations where you can get some of the, you know, first pancakes out. That probably sounds good. Once I know when I'm actually going to see him again, I'll probably schedule another one. All righty, friends. So to try this out at home, here are the steps. One, notice what it is that you actually want to feel, not just the action you want your partner to take, but how you That action would make you feel how you were imagining you will get to feel if your partner takes that action.

[00:44:20] That is actually your emotional desire. And that's what you really want. You want how you would get to feel if that person takes that action. So just pick one overwhelmingly desired feeling that you feel like you have pretty regularly. Number two, See if you can challenge yourself to make no one wrong.

[00:44:43] This is really hard if this is a thing that you've been wanting for a long time, have asked for in 400 different ways, still haven't gotten, blahdy blah. Clearly something is not going right, right? So we're going to go back to the drawing board. Let all that previous crap fall away. It is not evidence of anything, other than that you found a bunch of ways that didn't work.

[00:45:07] Okay, so see if you can challenge yourself to make no one wrong. Your partner is not wrong for not understanding yet, and you aren't wrong for wanting it in the first place. Number three, ask how can we use this to connect and learn more about each other? How can I help my partner understand me better by sharing vulnerably about the feelings I want to have?

[00:45:32] It's a hard thing to do. It's going to take some bravery. But ask yourself, how can I share myself vulnerably? All right, number four, the last one, I want you to try on, in your imagination, sentences or alternative things your partner could say or do to help you get the feeling you want. Assuming that the thing you think that they should do to make you feel that way is not available.

[00:45:59] So, imagine that is just not available or possible for whatever reason. Then, imagine what they could say or do that would still give you the feeling you want, or at least partially the feeling you want, and try on some different things that you think might be more likely to be within their capacity. And when I say try on, I mean really like imagine it fully and see how it feels in your body.

[00:46:25] Look for alternatives to offer your partner as ideas by picking things that feel pretty darn good in your body. If you need help, as per usual, always reach out. To me, that's what I do. And I am here for you, but have fun with that. Try it out at home and I'll see you here next week. Hey, if you're curious about how you could have better sex and connections, go grab my free guide.

[00:46:48] Find your secret turn ons. It's right on my website, www. thorajergens. com and the link is in the show notes. I'll see you here next time.