Too tired for sex? How burnout kills desire, with Dr. Amy Grimm

When you're running on empty, sex feels like just another demand on your already depleted system. But burnout isn't just affecting your work life—it's killing your desire and disconnecting you from your partner.

Dr. Amy Grimm, veterinarian and certified burnout coach, joins me to explore how chronic stress impacts intimacy. We discuss what both high and low desire partners need to know, including: 

• Why burnout is a nervous system problem, not just a work problem
• How to tell if you're burned out vs. depressed
• Why sex becomes performative when you're disconnected from yourself
• The micro-moment practices that actually restore your nervous system (no hour-long meditations required)
• How to reconnect with your body so you can reconnect with your partner

If you suspect burnout is affecting your relationship or libido, this conversation will help you understand what's really happening—and give you simple tools to start healing.

Resources: Free video series: The Burnout Fix - https://burnoutfreeme.kit.com/burnoutfix Amy's podcast: Burnout-Free Me - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/daring-dvm/id1685789557 Website: https://daringdvm.com

Special Course Announcement: limited time, last enrollment:
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with Dr. Aline LaPierre & Dr. Laura Jurgens starts February 1, 2026

https://neuroaffectivetouch.com/thriving-together

Get my free guide: 5 Steps to Start Solving Desire Differences
(Without Blame or Shame), A Practical Starting Point for Individuals and Couples, at https://laurajurgens.com/libido

Find out more about me at https://laurajurgens.com/

Read The Desire Gap Blog at https://laurajurgens.com/the-desire-gap-blog/

Transcript

0:01  
Laura, welcome to the desire gap podcast. I'm your host, Dr Laura Jurgens, and whether you want more sex than your partner or less, you are not wrong, and your relationship isn't doomed. You just need better tools to solve the struggles of mismatched libidos. That's what we do here, so welcome and let's dive in. Well, welcome everyone today, I have a special guest here to talk about one of the most common culprits behind low desire that very few people are talking about, and that is burnout. When you are running on empty sex often feels like just another demand on our already depleted system, right? So today, we are actually going to explore how burnout shows up in your intimate life, how to recognize it in your life, if you might be burned out, and sort of what to do about that, what you can actually do about it. So with me today, I have the wonderful Dr Amy grim who is a veterinarian, a certified success and well being coach. She's a speaker. She's the founder of burnout free me, which is a coaching practice for high achieving women and professionals who are tired of running on empty and ready to build success that doesn't cost them their health, relationships or sense of self. She's a former medical director who personally experienced burnout, and Amy brings a rare blend of lived experience, neuroscience based coaching and Compassionate Leadership Training to her work. She's the host of the burnout free meat podcast, where she shares practical tools and honest conversations about stress, identity, ambition and what it really takes to feel successful and well. And I am so glad to have her here today on the podcast to talk about the intersection of burnout and desire. So welcome.

1:57  
Amy, Laura, thank you so much. I am very much looking forward to our conversation today. Thank you for having me.

2:05  
Yeah, our pleasure. We're glad to have you. So let's just start with the basic definitions. So would you tell us, Amy, what brought you know, what is burnout coaching, and how do you even define burnout for people?

2:24  
Yeah, that's a great question, because burnout can mean a lot of different things to different people, and I think at the core of it, like the very essence for me is with burnout coaching, I am helping somebody understand what's going on like beneath their exhaustion. You know, we're all sort of doing the best that we can, and sometimes we get stuck in this cycle where it can feel like we're just this hamster stuck on a wheel and we're just going, going, going the whole time. There's this output, this constant demand, and we feel like we're depleting ourselves. And many times, we'll try to come up with answers, like our brain loves to try and give us solutions to problems. So things can sound like, okay, maybe the problem is me. Maybe I'm just not working hard enough or pushing hard enough or doing it right. I'm not cut out for this career. Or we could place that externally, where we think, okay, it must be the job, or it's my boss's fault, or maybe I'm feeling this kind of exhaustion and dissatisfaction at home because my partner is doing something wrong, and beneath all of that is there. I think the solution lies, and that's what I like to focus on in what I call burnout coaching, but really it's this idea of like, okay, why am I feeling this way? And what truly is the trigger, which, for me, is the nervous system. There's something going on at that level that is causing this kind of misalignment in our lives, and we spend so much time searching outside of that that we can miss that piece of the puzzle that truly helps us heal. So that's where I like to focus a lot of my time. And for me, when you ask me, like, what the definition of is, I would say that it is a nervous system problem like it is this depletion of energy without being able to restore or refuel ourselves, and that's what ends up leading to that sense of exhaustion, or going through the motions, or just feeling like you're stuck on that wheel.

4:56  
Yeah, absolutely. So what are people usually calling it? Before they recognize it as burnout. Do you hear terms? Is it just exhaustion or overwork? What are the things that people are using?

5:09  
Yeah, yeah, that's another great question, because it's a interesting space to be in when people use so much different language to describe it. Some things that I commonly hear are just being overwhelmed, oftentimes feeling very stressed, and not understanding why. A lot of times it can also be trying to rest or take care of yourself, but not actually feeling rested when you've done that, it's like you're doing the self care things, but they're, for some reason, not working. And a lot of it really is this, like running on fumes or running on empty. You're constantly giving you are still being productive. You're showing up in your life, but it doesn't feel the same as used to. Maybe it could be a lack of joy meaning fulfillment, like there's something on that emotional level that is missing, and I think that's often when people start to recognize it, because on the outside, their life looks really good, like they've checked all the boxes. They appear successful. They have the job, they have, you know, the family or the partner, and then there's like, that little voice inside that's like, wait a minute, this doesn't actually feel how I thought it would. Yeah. What is going on?

6:41  
Totally I think that happens a lot when people are kind of going through life trying to check off the boxes that they've been told are going to make them happy. And then you arrive, and you get there and you're like, wait a second, this was not the road to happiness that everybody said. But I wonder, I think, what you were describing. I also want to, I want to ask this question like, how do people tell the difference between depression and burnout, or is there even a difference? And do we need to tell the difference? Because it sounds to me like a lot of what you're describing is a lot of people will go and seek medical support for depression, but they might be missing the the burnout aspect. Or do you see them frequently going together?

7:27  
Yeah, that that's an amazing question, because I think all of this is so intricately tied together. Yeah, when I think about burnout, I do see a lot of similarities with depression, or what would be labeled as clinical depression, and for me as a coach, that's kind of a tricky place to be, because I am not a therapist, I'm not a human medical professional, and I have to honor that and stay within my boundaries of what I can do to support someone professionally. And many times when I'm thinking about it, I'm thinking of burnout as a nervous system state. So in essence, what I'm talking about is polyvagal theory, where it's this hypothesis, our nervous system has three main states. There's that parasympathetic, rest and digest state where we're connected. Then there's more of that stress state that fight, flight or freeze, where everything is hyper activated. And if we've been existing, yeah, yeah, if we've been existing in that sympathetic state for a long time, our bodies don't have the energy to keep us there permanently, so they start to shut things down. And as they do that, it look very similar to depression, where you just don't have that energy to get out of bed in the morning. You know you're feel like you're trapped in like this dark place where you know, like maybe a basement where the lights are off, it's just quiet and still. There's no one around to help you. You feel alone, and because these two things are so tied together, if I encounter someone who is more in that, like advanced stage of burnout, I'm always going to encourage them to seek medical support as well, because they can be so closely tied together absolutely and a lot of choirs, like a multi faceted approach as well. You know, I can help body by teaching them nervous system tools, but if they are in such a far advanced they're going to need more than that as well, and therapy and counseling is certainly a place where that help is available. So for me, I don't worry. Too much about, like, really trying to pull them apart from each other, rather than saying, Okay, this is a state where we're going to need to put a lot more in to get to a place of a recovery. And how can we best support you doing that?

10:16  
Yeah, wonderful, wonderful. And what I so I love that we talked a little bit about, we touched on polyvagal theory, which might sound okay, so that sounds really geeky for some of you, and somewhat some of you, your little ears perked up and you were like, Oh, I'm intrigued. I like to know about all the details. And the other ones of you were like, Ah, I don't want to know about that stuff, but if you are interested, well, we'll think about talking about a little bit more today, but there is this is also the foundation of neuro effective touch, which you have heard about here on this podcast before, that's a polyvagal, informed approach to attachment trauma and family trauma. And there's a lot like, as we start understanding more about how humans are put together, the we don't have to get into, like, the nitty gritty of that theory, but if you're curious, there's some great books out there about it. And basically what we're trying to say is, we're talking about the nervous system, and that's what Amy was saying too, so that our nervous systems do matter. And I'm wondering, in your experience as a coach, coaching on burnout, have you seen burnout affecting libido or sexuality with your clients, or in your own experience with burnout? Because it does seem really common in my practice, and I'm wondering what you've observed,

11:40  
yeah, yeah. And, I mean, the short answer is yes,

11:44  
absolutely, yeah. And maybe I don't know how many people are coming to you to express that, because sometimes people feel really self conscious about talking about it, especially if they don't know where the person stands on talking about sexuality. But what are you getting? The sense that your clients who are coming to you with burnout challenges, it is affecting their intimate relationships, their relationship with their their own sexuality, their libido. You're getting kind of some spidey senses going on that one.

12:16  
Yeah, absolutely. And even from my personal experience, it had a very big impact that I didn't necessarily understand or realize at the time, and a lot of that was just being unable to be present in that intimate or sexual way that I wanted to be. And when I have clients coming to me talking about, you know, maybe the stress that they feel at work and how exhausted they are, I now have the understanding that, okay, it's not just a work problem. The World Health Organization defines burnout as just like chronically unmanaged stress in the workplace. And I think that is an incomplete definition, because when we look at it from the perspective of the nervous system, it's our whole lives, and we can't just compartmentalize like what we're feeling one area of our life, because if you're feeling, you know, pressured in your work life, you probably are feeling pressures in your daily life that is probably affecting your relationships, whether that be, you know, with your children or with your spouse, it's going to be affected in some way, and because many of the individuals that I'm working with are used to being, you know, highly productive, ambitious, they have a lot of responsibility, they're also used to pushing their own needs aside in order to achieve these external things like check those boxes off and one of the easiest places for us to push aside are our relationships. Like they're one of the biggest, most important things in our lives. But for some reason, we're like, we're going to focus on the task at hand and these relationships, they can become stressed. We can feel disconnected, and then that's when I think the disconnection with intimacy occurs, because now you know, we're having these more like intellectual problems between our partners, like maybe we disagree on something, or we don't think that, you know, they are supporting us, or they don't share in our vision, and then suddenly you can't just flip a switch and be like, hey, it's sexy time. Let's put yeah

14:50  
exactly yeah. That makes and that really tracks with what I see in my practice, that, you know, sex and often, if. You're in burnout, sex becomes another to do item like and it doesn't feel like it's stress relief anymore. It doesn't feel like it's even for you. Because if you're so, if you're just like good, you're really white knuckling to put out all the energy that you have towards other people's things. You know, whether that's your boss's list of to do's or your kids needing their lunches packed or whatever, then your partner just even wanting to connect with you winds up feeling like another obligation

15:30  
and like I don't have time for this, right?

15:32  
Exactly like your partner is being needy when actually they just want to connect with you, but because you're so depleted any any request for any like energy from you, winds up feeling like too much. And that doesn't mean that either of you are wrong. This is another place where, like, nobody's wrong. In this scenario, it's just that where you're at requires a certain approach. And, you know, it may not, it doesn't work to just sort of, like, start looking at sex as another item on the to do list. And like, oh, I have to, I have to do this to maintain my relationship. Like, that'll come back and bite people. And over the course of time, it really does. It really then you start having all of the sort of knock on effects of seeing sex as an obligation. But I find even in the early stages of burnout, people will often avoid even thinking about spending time or being intimate with their partners, but they'll, like, obsess over work details, you know, and so, like, our brains get trained in a way to try to, sort of like, follow the little dopamine hits of accomplishing tasks at work and something we don't want to slow our nervous systems down enough to actually connect with ourselves, because sometimes we're scared of what we're going to find, I think, when we're in burnout. So I'm wondering if that does that resonate with your experience too, that sometimes people are almost like scared of slowing down and checking in with their nervous system, because it like, or doing something that would actually give them rest, because it's almost like you're afraid that you're not going to be able to restart the car again.

17:16  
Yeah? And also just, you know, I don't have time to slow down. I've got shit to do.

17:21  
Yeah, even if it's the thing you need more than anything

17:23  
else, if you slow down, it's like, I don't have time for that.

17:27  
Yeah, and that's often one of the key things that help clients identify is like, if you have the thought that I don't have time for this, like, that is a big flashing sign saying, This is it. This is where we need to be, because without slowing down, we are disconnecting from ourselves too. And I think that is what is at the heart of the problem. Some of the side effects are disconnection with ourness and disconnection from, you know, our goals or desires in life, or how we show up at work, yeah, like being disconnected from our goals and even then, like, you know, to speak to what you were saying about it coming sort of like another task on the to do list like I recognize now that I'm on the other side of it that is very much something that showed up in my life. And it was almost like disconnecting from myself in such a way that like I was only thinking of sex in terms of satisfaction for my partner, because that is something that I could check off,

18:47  
right? Yeah, I could provide

18:50  
that orgasm accomplished. I get a star. I don't even have to think about myself or tune into myself or pay attention to myself.

19:01  
Yeah, and like, Okay, now we're done. Now I can move on with all the other stuff that I have to do, right? And it was just such a loss, you know, in that moment, and you don't often realize it when you're in it, because you're just doing what you need to do through but it's a

19:22  
real connection with yourself and your your your joy and your own entitlement to pleasure and your life and your experience.

19:32  
Oh, yeah. And it becomes this, like, performative act in a way, like, you know you're, you're doing it to somebody else. And like, I think this is what they expect, or what society tells me this look like. So I'm just gonna do that and, like, make some good noises and then be done.

19:50  
Yeah, and you know, it's interesting, because as you're talking we're talking about this in the context of low libido, but I actually think there's an aspect of burnout. Can manifest as high libido too, in which our partner like being willing to have their box checked off, like if, if we look at it like a validation and okay, I've done what I need to do for the relationship. My partner's had an orgasm or three or whatever, and I get to feel good about myself as a partner. I get to feel like I've, you know, sort of like, shored up the solidity and the security of my relationship. And now I get to go back on to the other the next task on the list then, when our partner doesn't want to comply with that, when they don't like being a checkbox, when they want deeper connection, they want more rest with us. They want more like, like, really feeling into, like, a deep nervous system connection, then it just feels like too much that they're asking for. We're like, why can't we just have sex and move on? And I wonder if that also manifests sometimes in the burnout sphere is, you know, anytime everything's looking like it's looking like your partner, checking your partner's pleasure off the list is what you're going for. That might be a clue to ask yourself, whether you might be overextended. I'm wondering, are there other sort of physical or mental and emotional signs that you see that people could ask themselves about, what should they be paying attention to to know whether they might be burned out?

21:34  
Yeah, I think that feeling of over extension that is a very, very common one that stretched too thin. Or if you're constantly telling yourself, I have too much to do and too little time, those should be warning signs that you are putting out a lot, but not necessarily replenishing. And yes, sometimes, like our schedules are too full, and we do need to look at that. And there are certain things that you need to do to manage your time, but it's difficult to do that when you're in that either stress state or more of that burnout state, because you don't full access to your prefrontal cortex, so you're not able to think and plan clearly and make decisions that are really in your best interest. And I think that's where people start scrambling, and that's when it starts to feel more of like I'm going through the motions. I'm doing all the things that I'm supposed to do. So if anybody listening is hearing this and it's resonating, you're like, Oh yeah, I feel like a hamster. I feel like I'm going, going, going, or even, you know, I'm looking at my life and things look relatively good, but I don't feel the way that I think I should. Those are all little telltale signs, and especially when you start to feel more of that, I would say, like a deep dissatisfaction. Because ultimately, we want to achieve things. We want to have meaningful, purposeful lives. We all have goals or desires or things that we want, and and we are willing to actually put the work in to get those things. So if it doesn't feel like the reward is there anymore, and you're feeling the sense of dissatisfaction and thinking like, you know, where's the payout, what's the point? What is this all for? That is a very, very clear signal that you are stretching yourself too thin, and it's time to take a step back and say, Okay, what is really going on in my life?

23:50  
Yeah, absolutely. Like if that, if it feels and if it feels like you mentioned before, if it feels scary to think about resting in a really deep way, like, where you actually feel recharged that probably you mentioned that one before, too. And, yeah, that's a great indicator that that's if the thing you know you need you're afraid to do because you don't have quote, unquote time.

24:18  
It's like ding, ding, ding winner.

24:21  
And I think that speaks very much to self care, because that gets thrown around a lot as well as, like, practice self care.

24:29  
You know, a lot of people, we don't know what we're talking about. People, you know, it's like people are trying to sell us self care all the time, you know? And what do you think are some of the things that are good indicators that you might be doing self care well and actually recharging

24:49  
that is a good question. Yeah, so if you're doing what I would call self care, which to me is it's very holistic. It's. Not just about like taking bubble bath, right? It's also self care is like seeing my accountant and getting my taxes done, because I need that in order to have a successful business. Or, you know, self care is also like, okay, am I getting things like my daily movement in no matter how that looks to me, for some people, that is like going hard at the gym, and for others, it's like yoga or going on a gentle walk, like it's it's not just like things that make you feel good. There are also things that challenge you, or they can be things that you have responsibility for in your life, things that you need to do to have a whole complete life. I think of self care in that kind of broad term. So if you're doing it well, it doesn't always feel good like nobody wants to go see their accountant, right? Maybe some people do, but most are not. Like, yuppie I get to go talk about my finances now and see, like, how much debt I'm in. Like, these are things that are nourishing and good for you as a whole human so even if there's a little bit of discomfort there, it doesn't mean that you are doing it wrong or that it's taking away from you. It's more about looking at your life as a whole, and seeing these different areas of my life really in alignment with who I am as a person, what my values are, the direction I see my life going in like if you can start to answer those kinds of questions and move towards that bigger picture, that is how I think you know that you're taking care of yourself in sort of a holistic or whole human approach, rather than falling into the track just trying to check off another box. Like, yes, I did my yoga. Yeah.

27:03  
So that's so interesting, because I think you're talking about, like a whole, like a life care. You're taking care of your whole life. And then sometimes I also think about, you know, looking for people's nervous system care. Are they actually caring for their emotional self? Also? Are they caring for their inner child? Are they caring for their their body that needs rest and good food? Are they caring for their mind in a way that their mind they have some time to just think about nothing? You know, can they tolerate being with themselves and actually being alone for a little while to have some self reflection? Or do they have to be on their phone constantly? Right when we're caring for our nervous systems? We don't actually need constant stimulation and the brain and and the nervous system actually really like a lot of downtime and just time to kind of noodle around. If you if you're like daydream, do you have time to daydream? You know, do you have time to meditate, but not in like a you don't have to do it in a certain way, right? But just even just kind of check in with your emotional self. Do you know what your feelings are? Do you know how you feel in a given moment, or are you avoiding it kind of thing too, right? Like, I think some of those things are free. Nobody's selling them on the internet, but they're really important parts of, like, nervous system care also. And then the, I love the like, going to the accountant, or, like, meal prep or something that's kind of like, what? But like, it really helps in the long run, and it pays off for your future self. Like, are we doing those things,

28:43  
yeah, oh yeah. It's just so important to touch on every facet of being human, you know, like you mentioned, all of the emotions that just go into being a human being. If you are somebody who is like, you know, the previous version of Amy who was just going through her day setting all emotions aside because, like, I didn't have time to pull them, or I didn't think they were important enough. Because, like, I don't deal with emotion. I just need to focus on the task at hand. Like, if that's your life, you're missing out on such a big piece of your human experience. And in order to have that, it really comes back to connecting with yourself and learning about your different nervous system states. You know, what does it look like when I'm actually in this parasympathetic state. What does that feel like? How does my body feel? Not just like, intellectually, what does it feel like, but muscle tension, relaxation, like any kinds of like sensations that you may have. Of you know, oftentimes I will feel like a peaceful like wash kind of come over me, whereas, you know, if I'm more hyperactive state, I'm going to feel a lot tenser. Maybe my cheeks will be flushed. I'll notice that breathing is more shallow. And that doesn't mean anything's wrong. It just means I've gone into more of this activated sympathetic state, which is normal. I meant, yeah, yeah. And then I meant to be able to come back home again. And I think that's so much of what we are missing, because we're not taught to think this way or to experience this way, yeah,

30:40  
kind of trained out of it, you know, I think we're all born with it, but then we really get trained out of it, you know, the sit still, pay attention, only go, you know, move at the 15 minutes of recess, right? We're not tracking what our body needs and what our emotional state is anymore, and I think we get in, at least for me, so you talked about past Amy, so past Laura was also I was afraid to know what my emotional state was. You know, I think a lot of it was that I was so worried I would have to feel a bunch of uncomfortable emotions, that my version of self care was really numbing myself out, and I see that in a lot of people that were like numbing ourselves out because we don't want to feel the emotions. But what happened then was I didn't actually feel all the positive emotions either. And by learning how to actually feel my emotions, I got access to all this joy and all this like Wonder and gratitude and feeling like genuinely relaxed and happy in a way that I didn't have before, when I was afraid to feel the negative ones and was just trying to kind of, like, watch enough Netflix or drink enough wine to, like, not have To feel,

31:58  
yeah, yeah. I see that like, all the time, you know, like, just these little coping mechanisms that we have to not feel the quote, unquote bad

32:12  
emotion, the human, the human part of life. Yeah, it's not so bad once you realize it's not that scary. It's scary at first. And I, you know, I think that's one of the great things about coaching, is having a buddy to like help, like a guide to help, help you through it, is that helps you with that process, right? So I'm wondering for you, what are what about how do you help people? Like, could you give us one tool or exercise that someone could start using if they suspect that they have some burnout in their life, what? And that, you know if you do, it's probably impacting your relationship. So it's relevant here, and I'm wondering if you have a tool of something that doesn't feel like it's adding a lot more to their plate, but just as something that they could kind of practice that might help ground them in their nervous system a little bit.

33:06  
Yeah, yes. So many times I'm working with people who are on the go busy schedules. Don't feel like they have a lot of time for things. Of course, asking them to, you know, like, Hey guys, like, I have to step out of this busy meeting and go meditate for an hour, and then I'll be back. That's not really a feasible tool, not realistic. It can be really helpful. So I like to focus first on just little, what I would call, like micro moments of creating that safety or rest or even just a pause, because that can help bring your brain back into your body. You know, our brains can travel to the past and like, think about all of these things that happened, or they can go into the future and come up with hypothetical problems that don't even exist yet, and they're all over the place, but your body is always in the present moment. So one key thing is, like we were talking about becoming aware of your own nervous states, you can notice when that tension is building or when you're starting to feel that exhaustion, and when you that's a signal to take a pause. And for somebody who's in, like, a medical setting, oftentimes we have to wash our hands between patients. So a really simple one to do there is, like, while you're washing your hands, like, notice the heat, the temperature of the water on your skin, the smell of the soap. You know, you can feel the suds on your hand once you've rinsed it off. You know, the towel that you're drying with, maybe you even have, like, a lotion there that you put on that has a specific scent. And for somebody who's more on like the. This more kind of corporate or office environment, even things like just taking a pause before you open that next email, just a moment to kind of center and say, Okay. Like, how is my body feeling in this moment? Like, do I notice any tension in in my neck and my shoulders, like, do I feel any sort of tenseness tingle in my chest? How's my breathing? And this takes, like, just a few seconds to do, and you're not trying to force yourself to come down. Like a lot of people think that if they're in a higher stress state. It means they're doing it wrong, and they're never supposed to be there. And if they were doing everything correctly, then they would feel good or relaxed all the time. Like, that's not true, just trying to notice, like, where your body is, and to take a moment to bring everything back and be present. And that in itself, can act as a little bit of a reset and even create some more time for you to become more attuned or aware with what it is that you are experiencing. So those are sort of the really, like tiny, basic steps that I like to start with, because most of the pushback I get is I don't have time for these things. So it's really about finding these tiny split second, like I do this while brushing my teeth or driving in the car, that it only takes a few seconds to just check in with yourself and actually see. What do I feel in my body in this moment? Exactly.

36:39  
Yeah, that's so great. What am I experiencing in my body, physically in this moment? What can I feel? Yep, such a good place to start. And it's actually like it's really where we start with anything about connecting to other people too, because we have to connect to ourselves first in order for there to be any one home. And I love this example so much because it really gives people also these little micro body scans over the course of the day. Can Help You disconnect when it's time to start resting. If you do this during your day, then you can also do it when you get home, and not expect yourself just to sort of magically flip a switch, but notice what's actually real for you.

37:27  
Yeah, yeah. And then, like, the follow up that is like, you know, once you're used to doing this kind of check in, then asking yourself, okay, what do I actually need when I am

37:39  
doing this? It's so much easier.

37:42  
Because, like, you were saying about, you know, the numbing out with Netflix. Or for me, it was coming home and, like, rewarding myself with a glass of red wine, like, this is what you need. I did that one too take the edge off, you know, the day. And, like, if I think about what I what I need in that moment, like, I don't have a red wine deficiency that is not fulfilling the need, but looking outside of that, and a lot of times it was like, almost like a decompression, like a permission to relax and release and like, let go of some of the day. And for other people, it could be what they actually need is connection, you know, like, Yeah, can I have a conversation with my spouse or a friend or family member? What do I do to feel more of that community? And there's so many little things that we can think of in moments, but if you never pause to then create the time to ask yourself the question, then you're just going to keep repeating that pattern and essentially being the hamster. Yep, absolutely

38:59  
100% that's exactly my experience, too. And it was definitely not a wine deficiency for me. It was also a efficiency of slowing down, you know. And I had to teach myself how to do that, and it's been really valuable. So I want to invite everybody to try out this exercise, just checking in with your body and what sensations you're experiencing in the moment, without making them wrong or having to judge them or having to make them different, just knowing what's true for you is like how you invited people. I love that. So when, as we kind of close this conversation, I'm wondering what's something that you wish more people understood about burnout as it relates to relationships and intimacy. Do you have anything that you kind of wish was a little bit more well understood in the general population?

39:57  
Yeah. Think I mean. Really, what it comes down to is that burnout and intimacy, they're not separate issues of what you've already mentioned about. You know, lacking that capacity for connection when you're in a burnout state, lacking that capacity for pleasure or buyer, those are all things that are affected. And if you're feeling that way, it doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with you or your partner or that your relationship is bad. It doesn't necessarily mean that there's this problem that you have to fix, because that's where a lot of our brains like to go, is like, how do I fix the problem? And then we get stuck up here in our brains, instead of coming back down into our bodies. And I think coming back home to yourself, learning to reconnect with yourself, what your desires are, your needs are, what you want out of a relationship like those things are all so nourishing, and they help us not enter these burnout states as frequently. I don't like to say that. You know you'll never experience burnout, because once again, then our little action is brains are like, Oh, if I ever experienced this, and it means I'm doing something wrong, and we go down that rabbit hole again. But it's more being open to that and knowing that this is okay. This is just the state that I'm in. It doesn't mean anything has gone wrong. My biology is functioning as it should. And guess what? I have the awareness and the tools to help myself become more related and enter back into more of that parasympathetic, parasympathetic or restful, connected state. And I think those are just so intricately tied together that we need to accept it's all part of being human.

42:01  
Absolutely, that's such a great answer. Thanks so much. Amy. I'm so aligned with what we do here, and just thinking about, yeah, when we are when we're disconnected from ourselves, of course, we're disconnected from other people, and being in this place where we can rest and be more connected is gonna help. Really does help everything. And once we're there, in my experience, and I wonder if it's in your experience too, from having been in burnout, is when you find your way out through real deep like nervous system work, and you actually learn how to rest. It's real easy to catch it when you start sliding down the slope again, you know, like, because it feels intolerable, and it's yeah, not that you won't ever get burned out again, but, like, it's a lot harder, because you would, you would have to ignore all the signs along the way. They're pretty loud,

42:58  
checking off the red flags as I go down.

43:01  
I don't want to go there again, because it's a like, it's a really hard place to be. It is a hard place to be. Yeah, absolutely. So if there's a listener out there who is, and I'm guessing there's a few of you who are noticing that they might want to know more about burnout and how to de escalate their nervous systems. Where can they find you to learn more about your work?

43:26  
Yeah, thank you. I'd say the easiest place to find me is on my podcast, which is burnout Free me. And you can find that on any podcast platform, and that's where you can really get a sense of, you know what I'm talking about, what I'm sharing, there's tools that can help you. I love it when people have questions like, I will answer those on the podcast. So please like that is a free resource that's available to anyone. And then if you'd like to chat on a deeper level, then you can always visit my website, which is daring dvm.com because when I started, this was still on very veterinary journey, so that name has stuck, and that's because I really like the work of Brene Brown and being daring. And then, you know, homage to my DVM background, so yeah, I got that name, but yeah, come visit us on the website. Come check out the podcast. I'm always happy to chat, answer email, anything like that. Great.

44:32  
And we'll link all that stuff in this show notes, so it's easy for everybody to find thanks so much for being here. Amy, it was really wonderful to talk with you. Yes.

44:39  
Thank you so much, Laura, I really enjoyed our conversation today.

44:43  
Meet you, and we happen to have matching sweaters on today, so that was

44:50  
Bye, everyone. Hey.

44:52  
So before you go, I have some more free help for you. If you are okay with sharing your email, I will send you my free guide. And five steps to start solving desire differences without blame or shame. This is a practical starting point for individuals and couples. You can opt out of my emails at any time, but I think you'll want to stick around. I am not a spammer. Go get it at www.Laurajurgens.com/libido. Make sure to spell my last name right and the link is in the show notes.